Sounds like it could be. I just hope it’s not true. Reuters is reporting that U.S. diplomats have basically just said screw it and are allowing Islam to be “the” religion of Iraq. This can’t be a good idea, Islam is basically what we’re at war with here. How they could just allow this is beyond me.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) – U.S. diplomats have conceded ground to Islamists on the role of religion in Iraq, negotiators said on Saturday as they raced to meet a 48-hour deadline to draft a constitution under intense U.S. pressure.
U.S. diplomats, who have insisted the constitution must enshrine ideals of equal rights and democracy, declined comment.
Shi’ite, Sunni and Kurdish negotiators all said there was accord on a bigger role for Islamic law than Iraq had before.
But a secular Kurdish politician said Kurds opposed making Islam “the,” not “a,” main source of law — changing current wording — and subjecting all legislation to a religious test.
It doesn’t really suprise me. They’ve got what, three major ethnic groups in Iraq? All fighting for control certain areas of Iraq. It’s just not gonna work. If I had a say, I’d tell them flat out they cannot have a government built around a specific religion. I don’t think they should be focusing on splitting Iraq up into somewhat seperate entities at all. Sure, that might work 20 years down the road, but not now!
It’s really sad. All the lives and money lost just to allow something like this to take place. Makes no sense to me. Maybe I just don’t see the entire picture, who knows. If this really happens, in 15 years Iraq will be in the same state it was in 2000.
In the Bullpen was the first place I read about this. Mac agrees that if true, this could be really, really bad. Richard at Hyscience has very relavent things to say about it. I think his summary is a little clearer than mine. Patrick over at Clarity and Resolve sums the whole thing up quite nicely with this quote “a statement of Islam’s utter failure at compatibility with the principles of rights and freedom”. That’s pretty much how I see it too Patrick.
The Fourth Rail has a great post about Islam, al Qaeda, and the future of Iraq. I highly recommend it.
I’ll post updates when/if there are some. In the meantime, go have some fun at the OTB Caption Jam or checkout what Basil has for brunch today.
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Um, excuse me!? First off Bush invades Iraq on the pretext of presence of WMDs. None found – so his next argument is we removed a despotic leader. Great, well done. I mean, really, the invasion of Iraq (and Afghanistan) was unjustified and against UN regulations – for instance the US used forbidden weapons (carpet bombing for example).
Just wonderful. You know if removing despotic leaders and spreading democracy is so darn important, why is Mugabe still forcing his population out of their homes? They ain’t got oil, eh?
For the love of humanity, Iraq, a nation which has democratically chosen it’s new leaders now has the right to have whatever sort of religious principles added to their constitution! The US has no right whatsoever to meddle in those affairs. These Islamic principles to be added are being decided upon democratically, so just leave them be.
This is like saying Christianity should not be part of the US constitution. I think the US should keep it’s nose out of other people’s business, or one of these days it’s going to get scratched, and when that happens, I hope they learn their lesson.
Makes sense Pascal. We should do as the UN says? I think not. The UN is corrupt, even more-so than my government. Bolton will hopefully put a stop to some of the “dirty” in the UN.
To say that we should just let the Iraqis take total control and establish their own government immediately is insane. The world doesn’t work that way.
If we were to leave now, and let them do as they pleased, the country would be totally controlled by al Qaeda within 6 months. The Iraqi people haven’t even established a constitution yet. They need to be helped along the way at the beginning to prevent massive corruption at all levels of their government, just at the beginning though. I say after 5 years, let them radically change their constitution. Hopefully by then the democracy would be well enough established that nobody would allow al Qaeda or some other group to seize control of the country.
To let them do 100% as they wish now would be a mistake simply because they have no well established government. An environment like that is just begging to be overtaken by some radical islamic group. That’s why we need to stay there for a while.
But I see where you’re coming from. Had we not gone to Iraq in the first place none of this would be an issue.
Just because we haven’t found any “WMD’s” yet doesn’t mean they aren’t there. I’ve been looking for this article I read earlier today about a new find in Iraq. Can’t find it right now, but I’ll keep looking.
Anyway, something like 6 F-16 fighter jets were found burried in the desert in Iraq. Put there by Saddam’s cronies. If 6 F-16 fighter jets can hide in the desert for years without being noticed, I don’t see why that couldn’t be the case for the weapons. What about all the chemical weapons found in Iraq? Those don’t count because they can only kill a few hundred at a time?
I just hope our next president does the right thing and doesn’t just up and leave Iraq.
I think the UN is there to help keep some order on this planet, which Bush seems to have a high disregard for. Corruption and idiocy is far more present in the Bush Administration than in the UN. Might I add, Bush is probably the biggest ass in power in the history of the USA. For someone who can take 5 consecutive holidays at his ranch whilst under his orders a force of poor guys are off in Iraq, all I can say is Bush is a coward. And please, Bolton! The worst of all possible candidates to act as ambassador to the UN. The day I heard that… what a shame.
“To say that we should just let the Iraqis take total control and establish their own government immediately is insane. The world doesn’t work that way.”
Since when was it the USA’s justified job to poke their nose into other people’s business, invade countries and change their constitutions? For crying out loud man, the US has been in Iraq long enough. They’ve killed a whole load of civilians, overseen the creation of a democratic government, from then on every country has a right to create it’s own laws, and not abide by whatever the fuck the neo-cons and Bush think.
“To let them do 100% as they wish now would be a mistake simply because they have no well established government. An environment like that is just begging to be overtaken by some radical islamic group. That’s why we need to stay there for a while.”
Last time I checked Bush and the neo-cons were the most radical ‘Christians’ I’ve ever heard of. An these horrible people with their radical views are present throughout your entire society. Here, let me list a few:
Ann Coulter, a Fox news reporter:
“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That’s war. And this is war.”
or how about this
“Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.”
Next we have Bob Dornan (Rep. R-CA):
“Don’t use the word ‘gay’ unless it’s an acronym for ‘Got Aids Yet'”
Oh how about Bush’s father – George Bush Sr. (President of the United States):
“I don’t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”
Next guy – James Dobson (Focus on the Family)
“Those who control the access to the minds of children will set the agenda for the future of the nation and the future of the western world.”
How perverted…
How about Jay Grimstead (Coalition on Revival):
“We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way.”
Or this ass – Jerry Falwell:
“If you’re not a born-again Christian, you’re a failure as a human being.”
Oh, I know – John Ashcroft (Attorney General – !!!)
“Civilized people – Muslims, Christians, and Jews – all understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator.”
Kay O’Connor (Kansas Senate Republican):
“I’m an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn’t have to vote.”
Or the homophobic Laura Schlessinger:
“I want to coin a phrase here, and I don’t mind help. What would be the communication version of “ethnic cleansing?” Because that’s what in particular the homosexual activists try to do.”
Lester Roloff (Texas Homes for Wayward Youth):
“Better a pink bottom than a black soul.”*
*Roloff opened a chain of homes for “wayward” youth in the state of Texas; he was later jailed in 1973 and again in 1975 for child abuse due to the punitive punishment techniques used in his homes. He would have been finished had he not of been specifically given permision to re-open his homes by, you guested it, Governor George W Bush.
Or in the military – Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin:
“George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”
Just as bad, if not worse than Bush – Pat Buchanan (Presidential Candidate):
“Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.”
Pat Robertson (Christian Coalition):
“The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.”
Randall Terry (Operation Rescue):
“Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God’s law, on the ten Commandments. No apologies.”
“When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we’ll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed.”*
*It is interesting to note that Randell Terry’s son is gay…
For fuck’s sake – Jerry Vines (Southern Baptist Convention):
“They would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl.”
Ronald Reagan (President of the United States):
“For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ.”
Roy Moore (Former Alabama Judge):
“Worship With Your Vote”
Rush Limbaugh:
There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons… use them”
That this guy is till in the position he is just shows me how good the American government is – William Rehnquist (Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court):
“The ‘wall of separation between church and state’ is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned.”
And finally, how about the current US President:
“Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.”
“God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.”
Mh, I’ve heard something similar before – Pope Urban the third if I am right, addressed Rome and told all Christians to unite and rape, pillage, steal and slaughter all the unclean [Islamic] of the east. They have something in common, I reckon.
I hope that opened your eyes. These people are littered strategically throughout the American society ranging from the common town priest, your kid’s teacher to the media to the education department and finally to the government, where you’ve got the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and even your current President, Bush preaching this racist, sexist, homophobic crap. The fact that they are actually still in the positions they currently are should tell anyone that they are in control. Full stop.
Yah, I quit cuz this is pointless and I dun have the energy to argue with any more anti-war people about the same stuff over and over again. I could make the same basic arguments you just made. I don’t think you’re comprehending much of what I’m saying.
I’ll just consider you a total and complete lost cause Pascal. I see you got that wombat back in the header of your site. I like it.
“Yah, I quit cuz this is pointless and I dun have the energy to argue with any more anti-war people about the same stuff over and over again. I could make the same basic arguments you just made. I don’t think you’re comprehending much of what I’m saying.
I’ll just consider you a total and complete lost cause Pascal.”
Then let’s stop making such opinionated and radical entries altogether. 🙂
Oh, and the wombat has always been there.
Heh, are you trying to censor me or something Pascal?
Well if those that don’t agree with you are lost causes, then really there isn’t much point in the first place. You’ll make this lovely blog unpopular in the eyes of those that disagree with your political and racial views, whilst only like-minded individuals will remain to re-visit. That tends to make things bland, in my opinion.
Cheers,
Pascal
Search the archives and you’ll see these radical views are felt and expressed only during certain times. We are at war.
That doesn’t make sense. Actually it, in a sort of ironic way shows how people change when the media spews crap.
During war, you also tend to find a whole lot of propaganda. If your racial and political views change so dramatically when a radical leader becomes President of your country and begins to leash our rights under the sick name of “The War Terror” then something must have happened. At fault? Fox news for example. Remember if people who say such things as “Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.” who are still working in the position they are in (in that case Anne Coulter @ Fox news) – can’t you see something wrong?
Really, you should have a concise look at your archives. You’ve changed a fair bit, and in my opinion, many views are for the worse.
Have a good one,
Pascal
None of what I think has changed because of my president. That doesn’t really matter much to me. What matters to me is that my country will still be here in 40 years for my kids to enjoy.
I’ve said it before so I’ll say it again, I feel like this only when I need to. Were we not at war with an ideaology, I would not feel this way.
I developed these feelings after learning more about Islam and muslim culture. Put simply, we are kuffars, and they don’t think there’s enough room on this earth for them and the kuffars.
You’re just not understanding what I’m saying Pascal.
I don’t watch the news that much. Most of what I know/hear comes from the internet or books.
The propoganda war the U.S. is fighting is bullshit. We did a better job with propoganda in the gulf war. So telling my I’ve been brainwashed by FoxNews just won’t fly.
Here’s an interesting read for you Pascal:
People that create, believe and spread such material (as you kindly linked to) are an example and display of total ignorance and lack of respect to A) other cultures, B) other religions add beliefs and C) a (to me) lack of morality.
If you truly believe that the Koran suggests action via violence and similar, please, first of all read the Quran/Koran and the Hadith, as well as the Bible. I would also suggest texts in the area of Taoism and Buddhism (apologies if I missed out any other good examples of holy texts and books). Please then come to realise that many parts of these holy texts and books can mean different things when compared to the time it was written/compiled as to nowadays, and also that many parts can be understood and examined in different contexts. Both the Bible and the Quran/Koran suggest violence to non-believers, depending on how you view the texts (eg. taking an excerpt out of context).
If you still believe that Islam spreads terrorism or anything along such a thread – please read at least this table found here.
totally right pascal. they do have different meanings today. It’s too bad the islamo-crazies take what the Quran tells them literally.
It’s also too bad that that many ‘Christians’, in powerful positions take what the Bible tells them literally…